The Bret
Tobias/
Bigger
Lovers
Interview:
September,
2002

The Bigger Lovers are a rock band from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. Their new release, Honey in the Hive, produced by Thom Monahan, is a highlight of 2002 and is highly recommended. Their first release, How I Learned to Stop Worrying, came out of left field for many, a pleasant surprise among the stacks and stacks of indie CDs competing for attention. A band that tours and that can actually pull it off live, The Bigger Lovers are a shining example of great songs, great recordings and great live performances. I had an opportunity to speak to Bret Tobias and we spoke about a number of topics, including the band's influences, the origin of the band's name (not what you think), working with Thom Monahan, touring, rebuffed attempts to drink with Robyn Hitchcock and the internet's role in helping the band.

DF: Honey in the Hive is being touted by some as the Record of the Year. What is the defining characteristic of the recording and why do you think people are reacting to it as such?

BT: I think this record is a bit more straight forward and a little less experimental. We didn't have the huge plate reverb when mixing like we did for How I Learned to Stop Worrying, so it's more stripped down and direct.

DF: Is the subject matter of the songs more personal or a little bit more abstract?

BT: I'd say they are probably equally personal if not slightly more. My batch of songs are kinda cranky, Scott's more wistful.

DF: I said this about the last CD: "It's powerful pop. But what it is, most of all, is just a really strong, melodic rock recording, a rare thing nowadays." How does the new CD build on that melodic rock base?

BT: My dad always had a bunch of ELO and early Beach Boy records on when I was a kid. I resented that for the first 20 years of my life, but a lot of it apparently sank in whether I wanted it to or not. As to the things that I found on my own, obviously early on, the Replacements gave me a reason to start playing.

DF: When I listen to the Bigger Lovers I just hear really good, quality songs. To me, what we are talking about is just quality writing. Songs by ELO and The Replacements are just really high quality songs. It sounds to me like that's what you are attracted to.

BT: Not all ELO or Replacements songs are high quality, but yeah, in a nutshell. I've always been sort of drawn towards more assertive stuff. Certainly, stuff that had an edge to it, but that also had a strong melodic and song base, something that could be stripped down to its bare essentials and would still sound like a song.

DF: I always use the analogy that if you can play it on an acoustic and it sounds great, it's a good song. When I saw McCartney on this tour and he played "Something" on a ukelele, it blew me away. If it's a good song, you can play it with very minimal accompaniment. Do you agree?

BT: Absolutely.

DF: One band that you guys are often compared to is Big Star. Are they an influence?

BT: Of course. They are a big influence. If you ever heard my first batch of demos, it was painfully obvious. I met Scott when I was probably 18 or 19. He was a little older and sort of turned me on to Big Star in a lot of ways. The Replacements turned me on to them as well. I'd say most of what I listened to when I was a kid could in some way be traced back to the Replacements, either giving it a nod or writing a song about it.

DF: People look at Big Star and talk about the harmonies and melodies and ignore Alex Chilton's guitar playing. Was that an influence for you?

BT: Actually, I'm such a hack guitarist. I mean I certainly agree with you and I think that Alex is kind of underrated as a musician. I also think he could play a lot more soulful stuff and funkier things without sounding like a completely ridiculous white guy. In terms of playing, I'm really pretty much a four chord rhythm guitarist who needs to be a little lower in the mix. I think my strength is really just compiling parts of songs and making them work rather than actually being able to play. I think Big Star's overall sound influenced me more than any particular element of Alex's playing.

DF: I think when you get compared to so many different bands it pigeonholes you. Do you get a little frustrated with that?

BT: It just seems very natural to the indie press to throw down a million bands that have done something in a similar vain. I suppose it's valid, but it doesn't necessarily say much about how we stand on our own.

DF: So, Thom Monahan produced this record.

BT: Yeah, we thought long and hard about who we wanted to bring on and Thom worked out the best for various reasons both aesthetic and practical. I think he did a brilliant job with us. We're not the easiest band to deal with in the studio, and it takes a lot of work on the part of the producer to get us up to snuff. I really like what he's done and am looking forward to seeing who he works with in the future.

DF: He seems to be focused on simply getting good sounds and the best performances.

BT: He put in a huge amount of effort to mold what was going to be on tape and then left the performance up to us. Ironically, I think the last record, ...Worrying, had a more of a live sort of feel to it even though it was kind of Frankenstein-ed together and everything was recorded pretty much in isolation. On this record a lot more of the basic tracks were the four tracks that we had initially laid down live. Obviously, we layered stuff on top of that, but at least half to two-thirds of the basic tracks stayed, whereas in the past we'd get a good drum take and then scrap the rest and start over.

DF: Where do you see the band going on its next release. Are you working on new songs? Are you thinking about the next recording?

BT: A couple of months ago I almost convinced myself that we needed to start recording the new one immediately despite having no money and no way of doing so. I think the next record is pretty much done. It's just a matter of tying up some loose ends. No matter what you do going into a record, I've always found no matter what you're going for and however intentionally you decide you want something in particular, it never turns out the way it's planned. So, take any of my speculation with a grain of salt. But the new batch seems to be sort of darker and some songs might not just pop out of the speakers and grab you by the neck.

DF: The Bigger Lovers are a great example of what has to be done to promote and from the perspective of indie touring. How many dates have you guys done since the release of How I Learned to Stop Worrying?

BT: We're not really road hogs as much as we'd like to be, but I think we probably did about 65 or 70 dates in 2001. That's a decent amount considering we all managed to hold down our jobs and pay rent. We didn't have anybody behind us. Black Dog put the record out, but they really couldn't afford to do much other than that. Even now, it's out of print which is a drag.

DF: I'm sure somebody will pick it up and do a re-pressing.

BT: I hope so.

DF: What are your favorite cities to play in and why?

BT: Philadelphia, because we get paid. Chicago, because they have been very kind to us and we get fed., which is always a big incentive. Chicago also seems to be more open minded about new pop groups showing up and playing, and they've got us in the juke box which is cool. We've always gotten fairly decent bills there and sold records. In Cleveland it's always fun to play the Beachland, which has the greatest juke box in the world. Plus we always have Kurt Hernon who inevitably finds three local publications to cover us. He's really gone to excessive lengths for us.

DF: You post a tour diary on the website. Describe to me an interesting anecdote from the tour that's not on the website.

BT: We met Marty Wilson Piper the last time we played in New York, which was a real treat. About a year ago we thought it was a good idea to shoot a few hours of pool after a show in Charlotte, and consequently got into an eye opening accident where we rode off a country road and plowed down a no parking sign, blew out a tire and completely fucked the van's alignment. Last March the Soft Boys played in Philadelphia the night before we left for a little mid-west jaunt. I lived about three blocks from the venue at the time and threw a little pre-show party for some friends so that we could juice up and wouldn't go broke at the TLA's exorbitantly priced bar. Naturally by the time we got to the show we were beyond the tipping point and kept the party going, to the point where I think we annoyed a lot of people. After the show, which I can't really remember, I met Robyn Hitchcock back stage. He had a bottle of Jim Beam on him and I politely asked for a swig out of it and he stared me straight in the eye, didn't say a word, and then turned around and walked away. The next morning was our first show of the tour and it was in Cleveland, which is about an eight hour drive in the best conditions. We were all brutally hungover, and to add insult to injury Scott's finger got crushed while we were loading up. Then we had to drive in snow and sleet and when we finally got to the club, it was populated solely by Kurt Hernon, his friend and two other people. It was fun.

DF: What are your favorite records of all time?

BT: Not necessarily my favorites of all time, but some records I really love are The Only Ones, Even Serpents Shine, The Softboys, Underwater Moonlight, The Who Sell Out, first Lou Rawls live record (the one from ‘66 that David Axelrod produced), anything by Joe Tex, all the Kinks records between ‘65 and '71, Big Star, Robyn Hitchcock's I Often Dream of Trains, the ‘Mats, XTC's Black Sea, I could keep going…

DF: What current bands do you like now other than bands you have friends in?

BT: A band who totally blew me away was Destroyer. That record they put out last year called Street Hawk: a Seduction, I thought it was just amazing start to finish. I thought the New Pornographers record was really good too. The Minus Five record that came out last year was pretty great. I anticipate liking The Dirtbombs, and have been meaning to pick that up. I was a big fan of Mick's songs when he was in the Gories.

DF: What is the origin of the name Bigger Lovers? Something about a cat.

BT: It came from stupid, high-pitched pet-talk, unfortunately. We have one cat that's fairly moderate in size and one who is absolutely enormous. They're both very puppy-like and come running when you come in the door. Of course, the smaller, speedier one is the first to arrive. One time I greeted her with something like, "oh, how's my big lover", and then Miles, the huge one, comes lumbering down the stairs and I said, "and how's my bigger lover?" I thought it had kind of a fun ring to it. It's kind of stupid and not terribly meaningful, so it worked. Though I wish we'd stop getting looks like we've called ourselves the Enormous Cocks or something.

DF: How has the internet spread the word on you guys?

BT: I don't expect that pre-internet we would have gotten nearly as much publicity. It is just easier to spread the word and there are more publications dedicated to bands like ours.

DF: Some tour dates are posted. How far in the Southeast are you guys going to if you know?

BT: Hopefully, we'll hit either Athens or Atlanta on the front end of that. Which is just a couple weeks away. I'm kind of panicking. [NOTE: furthest south we're going is now Birmingham-no Atlanta or Athens]

DF: Describe the greatest moment of your musical career.

BT: Reading about my old band for the first time in Magnet. I was absolutely floored that this cool magazine had given us a mention, let alone said it was good.

DF: What do you want out of a career in rock and roll?

BT: To be able to pay the rent and have an excuse to do what we do night after night.

DF: Where can we get the new CD?

BT: Pretty much anywhere.

For more information or to purchase Honey in the Hive, the new CD, click here or on the cover above.

DF: Is there anything you want to say in closing to your fans that are excited and waiting for this new record, Honey in the Hive?

BT: Please give it four spins before passing judgment. That's what it should take to get its hooks into you.

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