David
Fufkin:
The Tommy Keene
Interview:
May, 2002

The Tommy Keene Interview

Since the early '80s, Tommy Keene has generated a body of work that comprises a real career in music. His skills as a melodic songwriter are matched only by his superior guitar playing ability. In a classic sense, Tommy Keene's music embodies the definition of powerful pop with none of the negative connotations. I had the privilege of speaking to Tommy about numerous subjects. Tommy was pleasant, open and honest. We talked about his early years, songwriting technique, his influences, his major label experience with Geffen, working with Geoff Emerick and Paul Westerberg and his new recording, The Merry Go Round Broke Down, a recording that you should definitely check out as a worthy purchase.

Click on the CD cover above or click here to learn more about/purchase the recording. Click here to check out Tommy's other releases.

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DF: You have a new album out in a few days called The Merry Go Round Broke Down. It appears that your work is coming full circle in that this studio recording really represents what you do live. The hooks are still there, except that you get that in-your-face guitar rock sound. Did you want that live feel on the new record and was that something that you were going for?

TK: We have been going for the live sound since day one and it has probably taken this long to achieve it. When we first did the EP, we recorded it on a one-inch 8 track. I used a little Music Man amp or a little Fender amp. We wanted to sound like the Who. The EP came out sounding kind of like The Beatles or The Byrds. Although the EP had a sound we weren’t really going for, we were happy with the sound. I over-dubbed an acoustic guitar on top of an electric guitar and arpeggiated parts of these songs that gave kind of a Byrdsy sound, but, again, we were not going for that type of sound. The acoustic overdub technique I got from listening to an acetate of a recording by a band called Grin, the first band of Nils Lofgren. I heard the recording because Nils was the brother of a guy I played in a band with in junior high school. Nils always played rhythm parts on an acoustic guitar, using the electric guitar to play little embellishments. We did that on the EP.

TK: The most rock sound I have gotten other than this record was the Based on Happy Times record. The people at Ardent were amazing engineers who got great sounds. I remember them pointing out the Marshall that Chilton played out of when he did Radio City. Another reason why we have such a great rock sound is that my present rhythm section has been playing with me for thirteen years. The rock sound was never cool, especially when we started. There was a lot of jangle pop like the dB’s, Game Theory and Let’s Active. There was REM. Peter really didn’t take a guitar break until the seventh or eighth record. A lead break, forget it.

DF: I perceive you like a Pete Townshend as opposed to a pop guitar player who uses 1-4-5 chords with a harmony on the chorus.

TK: Well, I always wanted to sound like the Who circa Live at Leeds.

DF: Whoever recorded the new record really captured great sounds.

TK: I have to credit the engineer, Chris Widmer, for some of the guitar sounds. I spent a lot of time in pre-production planning the guitar tracks. To record guitars is like a jigsaw puzzle.

DF: What did you use to record the record?

TK: I used a reissue Les Paul Classic. I also used an Ibanez George Benson model. It’s a hollow body like an ES-335 with two cutaways. It’s an amazing guitar. For amps, I used a Mesa Boogie. I used a Tremoloverb. At Tempe, I used a Marshall with 2-12's that sounded really good. I think I also used a Matchless.

DF: Matchless are great amps, aren’t they?

TK: You know, Matchless and Vox sound like big stereos every time I try to use them. Mostly, I used my Mesa with a tweaked Pod Line 6. Other guitars included my Telecaster and a Gretsch.

DF: Talk about a song on the new record, “The Final Hour”. That songs clocks in at over 16 minutes. I really think that this track captures how you sound live. Was that something you were intending to do?

TK: We recorded it live. There are different parts to the song and distinct parts at the beginning. We did the first three mini parts in one take. Then, a loud, fast part comes in and we took that all the way out. It was tricky to get the drums right. I wanted something other than a three minute pop song. The story behind the song is a narrative where two characters meet, have this long distance affair, one of them is unfaithful and the other forgives the other. The one that is unfaithful dies in a plane crash. The other contemplates suicide but then realizes that is a ridiculous option, then just thinks about what could have been.

DF: My favorite work of yours combines huge power chords with a memorable riff. An example would be something like “World Where I Still Live” off the new record. Do you start with a riff or the melody first? Do you pick up the guitar first?

TK: I write songs by picking up the guitar and turning on a tape recorder. I never pick up a guitar and practice. I’m always afraid I’ll lose something. If I hit on a little riff or chord sequence, I then build the song. I get the motif of the song and build it from there. I then add a bridge and a chorus and usually do the lyrics last.

DF: Do you ever write on the piano?

TK: I use to do that more. Piano is the first instrument I learned. I also play drums.

DF: When you write on the piano, there’s certain voicings you might not get on the guitar. Do you agree?

TK: Yes, except on the piano, you are also a little more restricted. On the guitar, you can do alternative tunings and use capos.

DF: Who’s your favorite guitar player?

TK: Pete Townshend, no question.

DF: He’s a master of chords. He uses different types of chords to match whatever is going on with the melody and he does it very well.

TK: There is also this improvisational aspect. He just sort of goes for it. Especially with lead playing. I’ve always been like that.

DF: Townshend approaches the guitar as a song writer. It seems that you do that.

TK: Yes. If you asked me to jam to “Crossroads” I could fake it, but I’m no Stevie Ray Vaughn.

DF: Describe to me what it felt like after you finished the Places That Are Gone EP?

TK: I remember being pleased with that record. On the previous recording, Strange Alliance, I wasn’t really happy with my voice and I was frustrated. I was never the lead singer in bands. I worked up from the drummer all the way up to the main guitar player and main songwriter. We just recorded eighteen songs one summer. We had been playing around a lot. On the EP, we were just trying to get the songs down as best we could. They were demos. We really wanted to get signed.

DF: What were the reviews like early on?

TK: Robert Christgau gave Back to Zero Now an A in the Village Voice.

DF: You got signed to Geffen.

TK: Yes, but that was three years later. I remember I had a 45 pressed from Strange Alliance. Inspired by bands like Mission of Burma, I sent 50 singles out to radio stations. Four or five people out of the 50 went crazy and opened a bunch of doors. Christgau got a copy and wrote it up in the Village Voice, giving it an A. That led to Dolphin which led to Geffen.

DF: That must have been pretty exciting.

TK: When we got the Dolphin deal, I recall thinking that the name Dolphin was ridiculous. It was like Hippopotamus Records. We thought that, although this wasn’t a major deal, it would be a great spring board. The major labels eventually came around.

DF: You got signed to Geffen and worked with Geoff Emerick. What was that like?

TK: He was the most gracious man you’ve ever meet, and a friendly, likable, quiet, soft-spoken, proper English gentleman. We spent months with Geffen picking a producer. We thought of Steve Lillywhite because of the sounds he got for U2 and XTC. Our second choice was Bob Clearmountain. Geffen rejected him because they felt he was just an engineer. But he had hits with Bryan Adams. The third was Geoff Emerick. He had done Imperial Bedroom by Elvis Costello. That’s an amazing sounding record. The A & R guy agreed.

DF: So tell me about the recording.

TK: We went down to Air Studios. We did the basic tracks. Then, Geoff locked us out of the studio. He said that he wanted to establish a direction without any distractions. We went to the beach for five days. I was a little leery of this, and after the fifth day, the A & R guy and myself were allowed to hear a few mixes. We freaked out. The drums were not what we wanted. We wanted Beatley touches and keyboard flourishes like the types of things Steve Nieve did on Imperial Bedroom. Unfortunately, Emerick would not change anything. We said that we wanted to give the record a radio sound. Emerick said he didn’t like the way songs on the radio sounded, and that was it.

DF: Jay Bennett adds a lot of Steve Nieve-type flourishes on this record.

TK: Jay is a big Steve Nieve fan.

DF: What eventually happened with Songs From The Film?

TK: We went to the Record Plant to try to salvage it. Bill Whittman tried to beef it up. There was really nothing that he could do.

DF: How were the reviews from Songs?

TK: I remember that Gerard Cosloy did a three word review saying how the debut sucked. There was a big backlash in Washington, my home town, about the record. I liked the way the record sounded. I wish the drums would have been more like Steve Lillywhite’s sounds, but who knows. We thought the songs were strong enough to carry us through. Geffen promoted it only for about six weeks. Once they stopped promoting, they pulled the plug and you know the end of that story. Actually the deal with Geffen almost never happened. We had recorded a record with T-Bone Burnett which was to be released after the Dolphin EP. The Geffen people heard that record, and said that if you put that record out, there is no deal with us. In retrospect, maybe I shouldn’t have signed that deal with Geffen.

DK: What happened with the T-Bone record?

TK: Well, Dolphin was run by Josh Grier. Dolphin was owned by the Record Bar, a chain of record stores in the South. Dolphin had a bunch of North Carolina bands. Geffen and Dolphin worked out a deal regarding the T-Bone album.

DF: So the T-Bone record never saw the light of day?

TK: The record never came out.

DF: Did you tour to support the first record?

TK: We toured coast to coast with Lloyd Cole, who was on Geffen at the time, to support Songs. To support Based on Happy Times, we played everywhere except the West Coast. We did a Replacements tour, supporting Based on Happy Times, which was a blast. With Based on Happy Times, Geffen was pushing me to do more writing. David Geffen himself told me if he didn’t hear a hit song I was not even going to put a foot in the studio. I tried writing with other people. I tried to write with Westerberg and all we did was get drunk. I wrote with Jules Shear. We hit it off. He is a really funny, cool guy. We wrote about four or five songs. “Vows Break” was the best one.

TK: When I wrote “Highwire Days”, I thought that was a single. Geffen thought that I might be right. At that point, contractually I had to get into the studio. I had a small budget. They let me go to Ardent. The band had broken up. The guys at Ardent had just done the Pleased To Meet Me record with the Replacements. I loved that studio. Working with those two guys playing bass and drums was perfect.

DF: Based on Happy Times is a huge sounding record.

TK: The irony is that this is what we wanted Songs From The Film to sound like.

DF: During the Based on Happy Times period, you were having label problems. Did that frustration reflect itself in the songs? I hear that on the record.

TK: There was a definite amount of industry burn out with people meddling. Geffen really needed a hit. They had signed Guns & Roses and really focused on that release.

DK: After your Geffen experience, you toured with Paul Westerberg. You toured with The Replacements on the Based on Happy Times tour and hit it off. Did you guys know each other before that tour?

TK: Like I said, I had sent one of the singles I referred to earlier to a radio station in Kansas. The guy was an intern at Twin Tone Records. The intern played the tape for Peter Jesperson who loved it. Twin Tone wanted to sign me. The Replacements had just released Hootennanny on Twin Tone. The Replacements played in D.C. that week. I went to see them. They were shit-faced and did some Bad Company songs. The club owner pulled the plug on them. I didn’t end up signing a deal with Twin Tone, but a mutual friend introduced me to Paul. He played him my stuff. I think Paul really liked “Back to Zero”. Then, we did the Based on Happy Times tour together. Cut to 1996, we were on tour supporting Ten Years After in Toronto. Paul visited me at the club after I had left at sound check. He was in town doing press for his solo tour. He came backstage at our Toronto show and told me he was having difficulties finding a guitar player for his tour. When I got back from our tour, Paul had left a message to call him. I returned the call, spoke to him, flew out to Minneapolis, and we rehearsed. I decided to work with Paul. It was a lot of fun.

DF: What happened between Based on Happy Times and Ten Years After?

TK: After Happy Times, Gerard Cosloy called me. He had started Matador. Gerard had been approached from a guy from Island Records who requested that he bring three acts with him. The three acts were Yo La Tengo, American Music Club and me. The guy listened to all three and wanted me. Unfortunately, the guy at Island got involved in a sexual harassment situation and got fired. Then, CBS wanted to sign me, and that guy got fired. We finally put out the EP Sleeping on a Roller Coaster in 1992. In 1993, I put the compilation The Real Underground out on Alias. In 1994, we toured with the Gin Blossoms. In 1996, we released Ten Years After. Then, as I talked about, Paul entered the picture. I also played with Velvet Crush from October 1994 to March 1995. On the Velvet Crush tour, we toured with Jesus and Mary Chain and Mazzy Star. I did a lot of things between Based on Happy Times and Ten Years After.

DF: That brings us up to the new record.

TK: We started recording the new record in December of 2000. It was supposed to come out last fall. There were remixes and changes in the release schedule by the label. One factor was that September 11th happened.

DF: To bring this interview full circle, I really enjoy the last track on the record “The Fog Has Lifted”. It certainly is not your average Tommy Keene song.

TK: “The Fog” is definitely a diversion. It’s an old song that I re-worked with a Neil Young Crazy Horse thing on the solo. I recorded eighteen songs for the record and asked some people I respected to choose the best ones. This is what we came up with.

DF: Well, certainly this is a new direction for you.

TK: Well, I’ll be interested to see the reviews.

DF: Don’t you think that the best artists write merely to challenge their own boundaries. Do you think you did that with this record?

TK: Definitely. I wanted to make a real rock record, have fun and please myself.

DF: I think this record will please a lot of people besides yourself. Are you touring in support of the record?

TK: Yes.

DF: Where will you go?

TK: Well, not to Florida. We’ll probably play the West Coast. Touring is very expensive on my level.

DF: Where can we buy the CD?

TK: I think right off the SpinART website. It should be at most stores and should be available through Amazon.com.

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