The Michael Carpenter Interview, Part 2

In part one of my interview with Michael Carpenter in the last issue of Fufkin, I focused on his swell new project with Hitchcock's Regret singer Mark Moldre, The Supahip. Their debut platter Seize the World (Not Lame) is a wonderfully relaxed pop-rock album that Michael's fans should enjoy and, I hope, may win him some new fans. In part two of this interview, I opened things up to ask Michael about the music business and the current climate for music, what he's listening to, the current status of his solo career and his songwriting. As with part one, Michael's intelligence and honesty shine through. This interview starts off with a question about one of my favorite tracks on The Supahip album, "Radio", a punchy rant about the medium we loved as kids and now love to complain about:

Fufkin: One track that stands out, both because of it's sharp musical approach and it's lyrics, is "Radio". Michael, I think you are one of the most articulate musicians out there when it comes to talking about the struggles of making it as an indie musician. Was this an idea bouncing in your head for a while, or did something instantly inspire you?

Michael (MC): As a producer, it seems like I talk about the state of radio and the lack of opportunities available to independent artists every day. I've studied, and been victim to, the way radio works and have been constantly dumbstruck by the power of radio still, and the difficulty certain types of music have in finding a place to be played, specifically independent pop. It seems like this music has no home...too pop for indie radio, but too indie for the mainstream stations it deserves to be on, but will never find itself. I've seen the impact a little radio play can make to a project...it can be the difference between selling 50 copies and 5000 copies, and in the independent music game, that the difference between giving up music or making another record.

So I guess the ideas presented by the track 'The Radio' had been floating about in my head for some time. I wrote the song one night while my baby daughter was unsettled...it just seemed to pop into my head almost fully formed as the one chord rant that it is. The idea of course being that radio only has its sizeable power and influence as long as people keep listening, and while radio may think it's all powerful, at any time a consumer can silence radio just by hitting the off switch...something I seem to have done a long time ago. Maybe that's why radio won't play me?

Fufkin: Of course, radio is not alone anymore -- we now have more than the radio thanks to the Internet, file sharing, downloading, etc. There are many different opinions on whether this added access is positive or negative (I think it's some of both) - how do you feel about these developments?

MC: There's no doubt in mind that we're right in the middle of a revolution to the way music is perceived, purchased and listened to. People's expectations of music delivery are changing, and with that their perception of what their music is is being modified. With the onset of the iPod and 'shuffle,' albums are becoming less important, which is a definite swing back from when the CD hit and singles seemed to quickly disappear. I remember buying singles...chasing down that one song I heard on the radio and not really being too fussed about albums unless three or four singles were great. We seem to be heading more towards that with online download stores. Where we're at now is interesting...there seems to be lots of dedicated music listeners who are exploring new options with listening to music. But the average person seems to be still locked into traditional radio and television.

Personal listening devices, like iPods, are interesting because technically you can go find some music and have it on your player instantly. I feel that eventually, record stores will be much more like boutiques, as people embrace the ability to download songs, or albums, with artwork onto their personal listening device. That's not fairy tale land any more...it's happening. And I feel like a lot of labels have been EXTREMELY slow in picking up on this. Instead of spending millions suing Napster and the like, why hasn't Sony got an international store right on their site? The advent of mp3s isn't new...I was aware of them five or six years ago, and yet most majors still don't seem to be as wise to this as they should be. I look at things like iTunes (which we don't have in Australia yet) and Emusic, and it seems so ridiculously simple. To me it's like being able to stroll through the ultimate record store. Undoubtedly that's where we're headed. I could go on about this all day...I think about it a lot...anybody who is trying to sell their music should be.

But finally, to answer your question...radio is still radio... t has a reach and an influence way beyond any other sort of promotion you can do, because every one has a radio in their car, and a lot of people drive their cars to work, etc. So basically, if you can't get on radio here, which is virtually impossible for independent artists in Australia, you're not ever going to sell more than a few hundred records. That becomes worse when programmers, who have an enormous amount of music to wade through, start to put certain criteria on artists...like they're more likely to play your music if you're out there doing four shows a week touring around the country. While I understand this to a degree, for a 38 year old who has been doing those sorts of shows for over 20 years, and has a young family, that's not gonna happen. That therefore makes perfectly valid projects like The Supahip almost impossible to promote.

Fufkin: Do you think that radio will respond to downloading and the iPod, etc., or that satellite radio is the more logical response? Are they pushing satellite radio in Australia like they are in the States?

MC: No, they're not. I'm not as up to date with radio things...I gave up on radio many years ago to be honest, so I guess it serves me right that radio won't give me a shot! But from what I read about the U.S., having more options is most definitely a positive things for artists. Anything that gives you a wider reach can only be a good thing. I believe, perhaps misguidedly, that if people can hear it and like it they'll find a way to get it. As a small record label now, and looking at sales figures, I may be wrong about that!

Fufkin: What about the live music scene - from your view how is it in Australia?

MC: I believe it's as healthy as it's been for a long time. There was a period there at the end of the last decade when a lot of venues were closing down. But there's no doubt that the 'new rock' has injected interest again in guitar bands playing in bars...it's quite a thrill to go out and see people at shows again, and bands with a better sense of dynamics in general. The shoe-gazing/feedback thing was getting kinda old. Unfortunately though, and I see this from all angles...as an artist and a producer, it is very much a young man's game, and you don't find a lot of married folks in their 30's at these shows. So it's hard for people in their early 20's to relate to a bunch of late 30's people on stage, no matter how great or accomplished they are. And that's not me being overly sensitive to age...that's exactly what I see, and exactly what these kids in their early 20's tell me to my face. But that's okay too...it's just a changing of the guard, and that doesn't upset me...you can't change getting old.

Fufkin: I know there are times that artists such as yourself can get discouraged. For example, Doug Powell has decided to call it quits. How often do you think that you should just pack it in, and how do you get out of that mindset?

MC: This is an important question for sure. Making it in any shape or form in this industry is about the most difficult thing you can imagine. What other career choice has about a 97% failure rate? I'm one of only about four people I know in the music world who are doing this full time, and to be honest, it's only my work as a producer that keeps me alive. My own projects have consistently cost me more than they make, and recently I did a tally up of how much I've spent on my 'solo career' and it was a deposit on a house. When you're younger you can take those risks, but my debut album came out when I was single and 32, and now I'm older and have a young family. I can't really get out there and tour around the place anymore... it's too expensive and I just can't afford it, no matter how much I love coming and playing.

When Doug made his announcement that he was quitting, I was on the verge of doing the same...at least quitting the solo artist thing. I've achieved a lot...I've done a lot of albums in a short space of time, and I still have a few more things up my sleeve that will take me through to the end of next year. But so far I've struggled to get people interested in The Supahip project, despite it being one of my favourite things I've done, and I struggled to get people interested in the *Rolling Ball* album. I have a nice little fanbase, but I think they're getting older and I worry that because I've released a lot in a reasonably short space of time that they may be a bit spent on me.

So with all that in mind, you have to ask yourself 'why am I doing this?' Of course, the answer is because I want and need to, as a creative person...it fulfills me to a degree like nothing else does. But there's certainly a diminishing returns aspect to it, and that makes it harder and harder to get up for every new project...believing that it could be the one that strikes a chord with people and sells a few more than the last one.

On top of that, there's the creative aspect. After Rolling Ball, I felt like I'd said most things I wanted to say. The Supahip outlet was a different sort of outlet...I was co-writing and throwing things together quickly. But I've barely written a song now for a year, and the thought of getting an album's worth of material together when I don't have much to write about is a little daunting. Plus, the Rolling Ball album was logistically a difficult album to make...I've gotten a lot busier as a producer and I was doing it in little dribs and drabs, and to be honest, I don't wanna make records like that anymore. But I literally can't afford to block book myself for a month to do my own record, especially when I'll struggle to sell that many of them. I guess the moral of the story is that I don't wanna be one of those artists who just records an album because he feels he has to, and it sucks. I have a nice solid body of work, and I never want to release a sub-par album in any way. And right now I just don't know if there is another originals album in my immediate future, for all the reasons I've mentioned. Guess we'll see.

Fufkin: With your standards, could you ever see yourself, 20 years down the road, just putting out CD-Rs (or whatever format is going down at that time) recorded in your living room?

MC: Absolutely...I don't think I'll ever really stop, but right now I don't have the time. If I win the lotto tomorrow though, expect three albums in the next 12 months!

Fufkin: I don't see you as having ever shied away from the power pop banner -- do you see the term as a blessing or a curse?

MC: I'm proud of being classified a power-pop artist, although I personally don't really think of myself that way...my music is not how I perceive power-pop to be, but that's okay. I've been a long time supporter of the genre of power-pop...quite vocally at times. And after my careful research, there's no doubt it's a curse. I'm mystified by why music that is so timeless, accessible and appealing can be so unpopular and unfashionable for so long. A few years ago when I was doing the Lost Weekend Pop Festivals here in Australia, my aim was to push power pop into the front of the independent music world. What I found was that people just didn't want to know. I still believe that the two compilation CDs we put out for the festivals are about the best two power pop CDs you can buy, and I have an unswayable faith in the genre, even though I don't listen to it as much as I used to. Like so many, I believe it will rise again, but I'm not sure when, and I don't think I'm the guy that can make it happen. I tried and it didn't work out for me, I'm afraid...

Fufkin: In terms of current music, what is hitting you now? What about bands you're working with or seeing in your homeland?

MC: Well...I thought the novelty of 'shuffle' on my iPod would have worn out by now, but I've been enjoying just whatever pops up on my iPod when I have recreational listening time. It's been quite a trip down memory lane, and I've been enjoying that very much...it's been very recreational. Most of what I listen to apart from that is the stuff I've been producing...rough mixes, or finished mixes, or mastered versions, just to make sure it all sounds good in the car.

We've had a great year in the studio this year...lots of great artists and whole variety of projects produced. We've done a couple of straight country things, a few straight rock things, and quite a few 'Aimee Mann/Jon Brion-esque' pop things...our favourite things to do, and we're getting quite a name for ourselves for doing that sorta stuff. So there are lots of good things that should come out during 2006. In terms of popular things here, unfortunately Australia is going through a bit of a depression musically. We've hardly had any new artists come through in the last few years who are real career artists...people you'll know will be around in ten years. Our charts seem to follow the U.S. charts more now than ever, so R & B/Hip Hop, etc. are favourites, with the odd rock thing. But certainly not a lot to make Australia stand out from anywhere else...which is frustrating. Our major labels seem to be a bit clueless at the moment. There seems to be a lot of great music out there, but people just seem to be struggling to be heard. It seems it's harder now than ever.

Fufkin: What about new discoveries from the past? Or anything familiar that has suddenly struck you in a different way?

MC: So many things seem to be coming back to haunt me. My love of The Band never goes away, but I'm into them deeper than I've been for a while. They seem to be one of those bands where every year I have a month or so where I love just diving into their music. I've been surprised at how bands like Supertramp, or Free or Queen for example will pop up and I realise that at one point I owned most of thier records and really loved them.

That always surprises me...how much music I must have soaked in when I was younger. And after not hearing a certain thing for a while, it feels wonderful to dive back into it. It seems anything post about 1984 though doesn't have the same reaction...a lot of records after that don't have as much impact as they once did. I think I started hearing music differently once I was in the middle of playing and recording it.

Fufkin: Now onto your solo records - what's on tap?

Fufkin: As I said before, I have a few things that I've had planned for a while. I have one more song to do for the next version of my SOOP (songs of other people) series. I've been working on this album in dribs and drabs since about 2002...whenever I have a day free I just record a song. This time I've decided to do versions of some of my favourite songs from my contemporaries. Once upon a time it was okay to cover other songs not long after they were released. Nowadays it's frowned upon. But since I've been exposed to the greater world of independent pop music, I've heard so many fantastic songs. I thinkIi could do a box set of versions of songs I love by my contemporaries. So this album will have versions of songs by Chris von Sneidern, Butterfly 9, Blue Cartoon, Bobby Sutliff, Cloud 11, Carl Hemmings, The General Store and The Andersons, just to name a few. My only criteria is that nothing on there was ever major label. The only other thing is that this will be probably the only time where I'll release an album where EVERY sound on it was created by me...no special guests at all. It's been fun to do it...I wish I had more opportunity to do it. So that should be out in the first quarter next year.

The next project after that will be my Oarfins album. It will collect all of the numerous tribute/compilation/extra/unreleased tracks in one place. It'll be a good collection that may put a nice full stop on things for a while...it'll go back over 10 years of me recording and tie up a lot of loose ends. I'm really proud of my contributions to tribute albums over the years, so it's a good listen to have them all on one CD. That should come out later next year.

After that, who knows. By then it'll 2007 and it'll be 3 years since Rolling Ball. I may be ready for another original album...I may be recharged enough by then. Or I may decide that's a good place to stop for a while until I feel it's valid. Or I may just decide to record more versions of other people's songs...that's always a fun thing to do, and there are so many great songs out there that people aren't aware of. In the meantime there'll more than likely be another Supahip record... Mark and I are enjoying it a lot, and we're going to get together later in the year to see where we'll decide to go next with the Supahip.

Fufkin: Has your writing process changed over the years? Is it easier or harder for you now?

MC: I've never really found writing particularly difficult...when I need to write songs, or I have an opportunity or time set aside to write songs, they seem to appear...sometimes with some gentle prodding, but often quite easily. Not all of them are good.. I usually give up on the sucky ones pretty quickly, although I never throw anything away...there were two songs on the Supahip album where my contribution was just little bits I had lying around! But generally I can find something reasonably quickly.

Even now when I haven't written in a while, I don't feel like the well is dry at all. Hopefully at the end of the year when I have some holiday time, I can set aside a day and see if I feel I have anything to say. I am getting a feeling that if I was going to do another record, I'd like to try to make a very pop record...I feel that I've always tried to cover a lot of bases on my albums, but I like the idea of writing straighter pop songs...lots of jangly guitars. But that may change tomorrow when I listen to The Band again and I'll feel I wanna get all 'rootsy'...

Fufkin: One thing about your music, to me, is that the joy and passion you feel for life is always evident. Even on darker or more maudlin tracks, there's never a sense of resignation. For example, on a song like "Good Enough", where the protagonist is in desperate straits, your empathy for her gives the song a sense of hope. Is this just something I'm picking up, or is that something that you try to put across?

MC: I think whether we like it or not, our personality gets reflected in our expression, in my case music. Personally, I'm a very.. .well, I wouldn't say optimistic, because I can be quite dire at times, but I always have hope. I believe in people being able to lift themselves out of whatever ails them if they want to. Of course, I know that's not always something people can control, but I really do believe that people can change their bad situations somewhat if they're brave and determined enough. So with that in mind I guess I can't help but angle my writing that way. In "Good Enough", for her she would feel fulfilled if her man appreciated her just a little more. While we can argue that it's a hollow and frail sort of happiness, everyone has their own yardsticks! So while I'm not consciously looking for a happy ending with every song I write, I am aware of this thing in me that's keen to project a more hopeful stance. It seems more useful than the other alternative...

Fufkin: Very well put. Speaking of your lyrics - I think that you continue to grow as a lyricist, and you're doing it the hard way - not through word play or cleverness, but direct, to-the-bone sentiments. How well do you feel your getting your ideas and concepts across? Is there anything that you're trying to say that you haven't been able to express yet?

MC: For anyone that knows me, they know I talk a lot, and I talk quite frankly. I always have and despite it annoying people at times, I can't change that aspect of me. And while I'd love the ability to write clever wordplay, like a Neil Finn or an Aimee Mann, I just don't do it very well. When I try, I feel like what I'm trying to say gets clouded, and there are a few dubious attempts in my catalogue. But in general, I'm at peace with my honest and direct style of writing. Some people I know think it's a bit too honest. Some people just think it's corny or I'm showing too much. But like I said, that's how I am. That's no different to how I communicate with people if I was sitting across from them.

With that in mind, I can go back to what I was saying about having not much to say at the moment...I feel like you can listen to the four original albums I've done and the Supahip album and you're going to get a pretty good idea of what I am, and what is important to me. I'm VERY proud of some of the things I've expressed on these records, but I desperately want to avoid sounding like a broken record. I want to avoid people thinking "here's another Michael Carpenter album with five songs of devotion, a song to his kid and a few third person observations about something he can relate to."

I think that was the thing that was most pleasing about The Supahip album...the nature of it allowed me to express a difficult time I was going through and I was extremely happy with the lyrical content and economy of my songs on that album. Certainly, it's very pleasing when people e-mail me to say that they have used something like "The One For Me" off Kingsrdworks as a wedding song. I can't speak for everyone, but I know it describes my life with my wife from my point of view very well. That other people relate to anything I've written is immensely pleasing. While I don't do this for the adulation (though a little is nice) it's a nice thing when people listen and understand. By keeping it simple I guess I'm just making it easier for that to happen.

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